Hughes on the Career Services

• [Sep 13] Simon Hughes (Bermondsey and Old Southwark, Liberal Democrat): I am happy to follow Mr Sheerman, with all his expertise as the former Chair of the Education Committee and his reminder of what the Skills Commission, on which he so honourably served, so clearly said.

I am grateful to Andy Burnham for choosing this subject. I shall let him and the House into a secret: the more pressure that we as a House can put on the Government on this issue between us, the better. I am therefore grateful to the Minister for the way in which he responded. May I pass on through him my thanks to the Minister for Further Education, Skills and Lifelong Learning, with whom I have had several pragmatic and good conversations, and to his colleagues at all levels who have said that, having received the report that I gave them in July, they are taking seriously what I asked them to do?

May I now go back a step? In May, we sent the Education Bill from the House to the House of Lords. We held robust debates on this and other issues. It left with two relevant provisions. First, clause 27 states:

"The responsible authorities for a school in England…must secure that all registered pupils at the school are provided with independent careers guidance".

I support that. Secondly, it states:

"For the purposes of this section the relevant phase of a pupil's education is"

between 14 and 16. That is an adequate starting point.

Two months later to the day, the Education Committee, chaired by Mr Stuart-a Conservative Back Bencher-produced its report. The cross-party Select Committee had a clear, unanimous view on the issue. It said specifically, at paragraph 156:

"Professor Watts told us that 'we used to have a careers service for young people, and all we had for adults was a strategy… What we now have…is a careers service for adults, and a very loose information advice and guidance framework for young people'. Online career guidance, which allows young people to explore at their own pace and according to their own interests, is valuable; and we heard praise for the online careers services offered by DirectGov. However, this is no substitute for personal advice, given on the basis of an understanding of a young person's circumstances and ambitions. We recommend that the all age careers service should be funded by the Department for Education for face to face career guidance for young people."

It could not have been clearer.

I did not know that the Select Committee would say that specifically, but the following week, on 21 July, I gave my report to Ministers. Let me summarise the recommendations and then make a point about my passion for the issue and ask Ministers to consider where we go from here. In passing, I pay tribute to all those in the careers services, including the Institute of Careers Guidance and the trade unions, who have been to see me and are absolutely passionate that this issue needs to be accepted by the Government.

I was clear, because the evidence given to me was clear, that people should start to talk about careers in year 6 in primary school. I was clear, which is why I was so glad about the intervention made by Kerry McCarthy, that work experience was seen as something where the cleaner did not take a child to work to clean or the accountant take another to do accountancy, but where the cleaner's child had the same exposure to the opportunities that the accountant's child would have and, to be honest, vice versa.

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Lilian Greenwood (Nottingham South, Labour): I wonder whether the right hon. Gentleman shares my concern about what is happening in Nottingham and Nottinghamshire, where Futures used to charge £13 per pupil to fix up work experience, but as a result of the loss of a £500,000 Government grant, it now charges £31 per pupil. Many schools are unable to buy in the service to match students with work experience opportunities, yet individual parents can pay £150 to buy just those opportunities for their children to be matched with work experience. What does that say to the children of cleaners and school dinner ladies about the importance of their opportunities?

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• Simon Hughes : I absolutely share that concern. We need a system that guarantees more than just one week of work experience once in July-at the same time all around the country-at one stage in a person's career. The Under-Secretary of State for Education, Tim Loughton, and I were at city hall today with some young people who argued that they should have at least two weeks' work experience. I am clear that it should be for those aged from 14 through to 16, and be held at an appropriate time and in an appropriate place. It should not be something that people charge to fix up; we should develop it so that it is part of the expectation in secondary school, and part of youngsters' lives.

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Andy Burnham (Leigh, Labour): I agree very much with the right hon. Gentleman, and I welcome the spirit in which he is speaking. He would probably agree with Labour Members that, as my hon. Friend Lilian Greenwood said, work experience is so important that it should not be left to random chance. We have to find a way of offering structured opportunities, particularly to those young people who have the least. With that in mind, may I ask the right hon. Gentleman to comment on the Government's intention of removing the requirement on schools, at key stage 4, to offer work-related learning, which essentially is work experience? Is it not the case that if they remove that requirement, provision will be completely random? Some schools will offer it, and some will not.

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• Simon Hughes : Let me be absolutely straight with the right hon. Gentleman: I understand the Government's wish not to burden heads and schools with over-prescription. I am chair of governors of a primary school, and a trustee of a secondary school, so I understand that completely. However, some things have to be guaranteed, and in my view we have to guarantee the opportunity of work experience during secondary school time, and we have to guarantee face-to-face careers advice. I say that not because I have some theological view about it, but because the evidence that we have heard, and that I collected, is that youngsters are overwhelmingly saying, "We've had bad careers advice and bad work experience."

In a tight economic situation, people even more need both careers advice and work experience. The figures that I collected show that there are more than 4,000 different qualifications that a young person can gain between the ages of 14 and 18. There are millions of combinations of qualifications that they can end up with. Navigating a way through that requires more than a person's ability to go online and discover what they think they might want to know; that, bluntly, is different depending on how bright the person is, what family support they have, and other things. It is about more than having some books to look at; it is about speaking to somebody who can relate to them where they are, and engage with them.

As my hon. Friend Gordon Birtwistle said to me when the debate began, in the end what is required may be more than one half-hour session; there may need to be follow-up-mentoring, support, and continuous commitment. That might mean a local employer-PricewaterhouseCoopers could step over the river to my constituency-coming into a school to continue to support somebody as they work things out. It might mean working out how somebody who fluffs some exams, and does not start very well academically, can recover and be told, "You haven't lost everything just because you had a terrible year when your parents separated and your family situation was a disaster." We have to understand that people have only one school time in which they can do work experience.

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Nicholas Dakin (Scunthorpe, Labour): The right hon. Gentleman must be commended for speaking with great foresight and spelling things out with great common sense. Does he agree that there is real urgency, as is reflected in the motion? Young people have only one chance, and getting things right tomorrow is no good for today's kids. We need to get things right now. There is a transition gap;

to be fair, the Minister for Further Education, Skills and Lifelong Learning has recognised that that is an issue in talking to me. That gap needs to be addressed immediately.

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• Simon Hughes : I do not disagree with that; I said it in my report, and I would remind the hon. Gentleman to go back and look at it. I just have time to list the recommendations and give my conclusion on where I think we should go.

The second recommendation, which is relevant, is that the Department for Education should continuously consider how best to support schools and colleges in their access activities, and in building up much more available information.

The third recommendation is that at the age of 13 and 14-in year 9-every student should have available to them a proper, broad base of information on what the pathways are. Indeed, it is not just the young people who need that information; their parents do, too, so that they are not prejudiced by their own experiences and past.

The fourth recommendation is that the Government "should act urgently"-those are the words on the Order Paper-to guarantee face-to-face careers advice for all young people in schools; that should be taken up to age 17 and 18, as the school leaving age increases.

We need a plan on how to keep the expertise of current careers services providers, given the change in the system. I welcome the change in the system-Connexions was often not successful, but we must make sure that we do not lose the expertise of the people who delivered the service. We must hold events for parents and carers to make sure that they understand that. Someone in each school-not the independent provider-should be responsible for access issues and someone for careers issues. Finally, Ofsted should evaluate the careers service given to the school and report on it, and how it makes use of destination data.

I am grateful for the Minister's courtesy and his Department's consideration. I can hold back my colleagues from voting with the Opposition only because of the undertaking he has given. [ Interruption. ] No: the Government are going to respond to all the recommendations, not one. I accept absolutely the point about urgency made by Back Benchers. Our Liberal Democrat colleagues in the Lords feel equally strongly that we must ensure the provision of face-to-face guidance.

I represent a strongly working-class constituency. If we believe in social mobility, we must additionally assist those who do not have the advantages of privilege and finance, which is why the Government must deliver. I await the recommendations and their response, but there must be a yes to the proposal.

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