Harvey and Hunter quiz Ainsworth on the Haddon-Cave report

Charles Haddon-Cave QC

• [Dec 16] Nick Harvey (North Devon, Liberal Democrat): THE Defence Secretary called the Haddon-Cave report "a tough read", and it certainly was, describing as it did the tragic and avoidable deaths of 14 of our personnel. It was a damning indictment of procedures in the Ministry of Defence and in industrial partner companies, so I welcome the tone of the right hon. Gentleman's response, both seven weeks ago and again today.

At the centre of what the Defence Secretary announced today, I particularly welcome the formation of the new military aviation authority. He described the authority as independent, but it is obvious that the safety of particular aircraft will differ according to the theatres in which they operate. The right hon. Gentleman has refined the Haddon-Cave recommendations on precise release to service, but will he say whether the MAA will have personnel on the spot in theatre at all times? Will he guarantee that there will be enough of them, and at a senior enough level, to be able to retain their independence and not get swept up into the emergency of a particular situation?

Will the Secretary of State also assure us that the new arrangements will be more responsive and attentive to feedback from the crews of particular aircraft than has sometimes been the case in the past?

The report was scathing about the two companies involved. Industrial partners are important to us, and I welcome the steps that the Defence Secretary said that the two companies were taking, but will he tell the House whether they will step up to the plate and share with the Ministry of Defence both the responsibility and the liability that emerge from this tragic event?

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Bob Ainsworth (Secretary of State, Ministry of Defence; Coventry North East, Labour)

The hon. Gentleman is right to say that there was a glaring risk to this aircraft that went undiscovered by many experts over 30 years. Most particularly, however, it was not discovered during the safety case that was supposedly put together to identify exactly such risks, but which failed so to do.

The hon. Gentleman also asked about the appropriate level of authority on release to service, and we have spent a lot of time over the last seven weeks trying to talk about that. As the hon. Member for Woodspring said, in the military environment we need to make absolutely certain that authority lies in the right place. I do not want to remove that authority: the release to service will be vested in the appropriate level of the chain of command, but we will also make sure that no one lower than that will take operational risk. Therefore, if operational circumstances demand that a particular platform ought to be allowed to fly, that level of release will be needed before any such course of action can be taken. In addition, the MAA will have the authority to oversee and audit all the decisions that are taken.

The reason why Mr. Haddon-Cave wanted to make sure that these matters were led at the appropriate level was to ensure the kind of authority and independence that the hon. Member for North Devon is looking for. That is why we are saying that three-star officer level is appropriate.

That structure might change in time. We may well find that bringing other parts of MOD safety within such a construct is the right thing to do, in which case the authority would broaden to cover other areas. However, for the initial period while we are setting up the MAA, the focus needs to be on aviation safety, and the organisation needs to be led at the appropriate level.

• . . Mark Hunter (Cheadle, Liberal Democrat)

Just yesterday I and a cross-party group of MPs met the Under-Secretary of State for Defence, Mr. Davies, to discuss the future of the Nimrod project. There are still 1,000-plus skilled workers at Woodford in my constituency building the new generation of Nimrod aircraft. What message does the Secretary of State have today for those loyal and dedicated workers who stand to lose their jobs when the current Nimrod project is completed?

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Bob Ainsworth (Secretary of State, Ministry of Defence; Coventry North East, Labour)

The decisions that I announced yesterday and those that the Minister was talking to the hon. Gentleman's group about were not connected to the Haddon-Cave review, as I tried to make clear yesterday. They related to prioritisation issues and budgetary measures within the MOD. Mr. Haddon-Cave was very clear. We asked that if, at any point in the course of his investigation, he found reason to question the airworthiness of planes currently flying, he should come to us immediately. He did not do that. He says that in his report, and he says that the Nimrod is now the most scrutinised military aircraft flying anywhere in the world. We still need the capabilities of many of the Nimrod variations. [Interruption.] We still need other variations of the Nimrod and we will need to look carefully at how we use that aircraft in the future. We will do so during a strategic defence review.

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