Webb on Energy Prices, Fuel Poverty and Ofgem

• [Dec 16]: ' . . THE energy companies are not making a profit through economic efficiency in a dynamic market; they are exploiting a quasi-monopoly, and the most vulnerable people in our society are losing out as a result . . '

• Steve Webb (Shadow Secretary of State for Energy and Climate Change, Energy and Climate Change; Northavon, Liberal Democrat): In the limited time that we have available, I want to focus on fuel poverty and the role of Ofgem. I echo the comments made by Peter Luff; given the importance of the topic that we are debating, it is nonsense to have less than a couple of hours to do so. There clearly should have been some sort of injury time.

The official figures tell us that there are 3.5 million households in fuel poverty, that earlier this year there was an estimate of more than 4 million and that the latest estimate by the Government's own Fuel Poverty Advisory Group puts the number at between 5 million and 5.5 million households. That is astonishing. Will the Minister discuss with his officials why we have official statistics on this subject that are two years out of date? I understand that the reason is partly that the English house conditions survey has to be done and processed, individual consumption has to be applied to that and the numbers crunched. However, we could surely have a broad estimate of what has happened since the survey was done. We know what has happened to the prices of the main suppliers and to benefit levels, and it would not be too difficult to get an up-to-date figure. That is important, because the changes that go on in the market have a different impact on different people. We are almost trying to make policy with a blindfold on. If we are using the fuel poverty statistics to inform policy, we should not be using two-year old statistics. If some estimate were made of what has happened since then, it could inform us as to whether, for example, people using the gas main, pensioners or people living in particular areas had been prejudiced.

Mike O'Brien (Minister of State, Department for Energy and Climate Change; North Warwickshire, Labour): The hon. Gentleman will understand in the light of current controversies why I might hesitate to rush out statistics without their going through the full and proper process.

Steve Webb: I think that we will let the Minister off in this case. All I can say is that I strongly suspect that he would not be rushing out bad news early. To be serious, I point out that informed policy making needs up-to-date data, and that is a problem in this area.

I recently wrote to the big six energy companies and asked them for an up-to-date and comprehensive account of their social tariff structures. They all wrote back quickly and gave me a full account, which I will publish shortly. One or two interesting things came out of that, which I was not aware of and want to raise with the Minister. First, the Government have legislated to allow the companies to know which of their customers receive pension credit. The companies have told us in the past that one of the problems that they face is finding their poor customers-knowing who they are. The Government are now going to enable them to know who those customers are, at least as far as pension credit is concerned. The companies tell me that they are concerned about the assumption that once they know, they will have to do something about it. There are millions of people on pension credit, but only 600,000 people on social tariffs, and the Minister will know that there is a big difference between the two groups. What can he tell us about his expectations of the energy companies now that taxpayers' money is going to be spent on telling them which of their customers are on pension credit? Does he expect them to do anything about it? It would be interesting to know what the Government's position is on that.

Secondly, I found out about how breathtakingly complex social tariffs are; perhaps that was already well known to everybody else. I discovered that depending on which company someone is with, their eligibility for a social tariff might depend on how many bedrooms they have, whether they are over 60 or over 80, which benefit they are on or how long they have been with the company, so that they may have to switch to a company and stay with it for a year before they are eligible. I find that most consumers do not have a clue; in fact, many do not even know that their company has anything called a social tariff. I recently contacted a power company because I had met a very elderly lady who was struggling financially; I said, "Can you help her?", and it said, "Now we know that she is very elderly and struggling, we will switch her on to such and such a tariff, and that will save her a lot of money." She did not know, and if I had not contacted the company it would never have happened. That is laughably-or it would be laughable if it were not so serious-hit and miss.

That raises a serious question about mandating national standards on social tariffs. Given that the fuel-poor are the least likely to switch anyway, we cannot rely on them to shop around between all these different companies, with all these totally confusing social tariffs, all of which have different and changing rules, names and eligibility criteria.

Michael Weir (Spokesperson (Business, Enterprise and Regulatory Reform; Energy; Work and Pensions); Angus, Scottish National Party): Does the hon. Gentleman not agree that there is actually a slightly worse problem, because all the companies' tariffs are different? The tariff that someone is on might not be the best one, but that does not necessarily mean that they will switch to another company with a better tariff just because they are found to be fuel poor.

Steve Webb: The hon. Gentleman is right. Not only might someone be better off with another company or on a different social tariff; they might not even be on the best tariff of the company that they are with. Fuel poverty is important. I do not know when the figures for excess winter deaths will next be published-the Minister might be able to tell us-but they are truly shocking. One excess winter death is truly shocking, especially when we think of the cold countries that do not have that problem. One can only fear that this winter will be a bad winter. The fact that consumers are not accessing the best prices for which they could qualify is simply unacceptable.

There is a danger of comparing the companies in an unfair way. One company will tell the House that it offers more social tariffs than any other by a long chalk. That company may have closed its social tariffs temporarily, however, because it is waiting for the others to catch up. However, it can turn out that when the company applies its social tariff, it charges more than some other companies charge on their normal tariffs. The consumer is baffled by all this. Again, that is an argument for regularising the situation and giving people an entitlement, rather than just hoping that everything will work out.

The role of Ofgem is important. I woke up this morning to the sound of Alistair Buchanan-a bad move that has coloured the rest of my day. I have no idea whether he timed his announcement because we are debating Ofgem today-I am not a cynic-but he was boasting about the hundreds of millions of pounds that Ofgem had saved consumers. I did a bit of mental arithmetic over my cornflakes and worked out that if he has saved, to take some round numbers, £200 million in 20 million households, that works out at £10 a year or 20p a week on average. His proud boast this morning, therefore, was of having achieved an average gain for households of perhaps 10 or 15p a week-I accept that that is not averaged out over everybody, but the figures are not that great if we put them in context.

Alistair Buchanan told Nicky Campbell that he would stamp his regulatory hobnailed boots all over the companies if they did not play ball, but what has he been doing all this time, while the companies have been leaving vulnerable customers in fuel poverty, failing to alert people to the social tariffs and overcharging on direct debits? In many cases the companies' behaviour has been disgraceful, and the regulator has been pathetic. He wants us to think that he is a tiger, but he is a pussycat. Will the Minister tell us what he thinks of Ofgem's performance? I hope that he will be candid and tell us whether he thinks the chief executive of Ofgem should still be in a job at Christmas.

Lynne Jones (Birmingham, Selly Oak, Labour): Will the hon. Gentleman give way?

Steve Webb: I will, although I will also happily give way to the Minister if he wants to answer that one.

Lynne Jones (Birmingham, Selly Oak, Labour): Does the hon. Gentleman agree that it is disgraceful that Ofgem is requiring the energy companies to release accounts on the separate wholesale and retail markets only now, after the most recent probe? Surely it should have done that years ago.

Steve Webb: Absolutely. As the Chairman of the Select Committee said, there is a litany of things on which the Committee has had to prompt Ofgem to do its job properly. That is totally unacceptable.

Ofgem identified three ways in which the companies were exploiting their market dominance. The first is through pre-payment meter premiums. I take the point that there has been some progress, but we have still not eliminated excessive penalties on pre-payment meters. I also take the Chairman of the Committee's point that there is no straight corollary between pre-payment meter usage and fuel poverty. We need to ensure that the fuel poor in particular are not being overcharged for their energy. The second way relates to people who are off the gas main and who cannot access dual-fuel benefits. Some action there is necessary; indeed, it is good to see some.

The third way in which the companies exploiting their market dominance, on which I have seen no evidence of progress, is through local monopolies. It has been put to me that companies such as-I do not mean to single this company out specifically-London Electricity, which became EDF, make all their profits from their legacy customers; that is, from inertia and from the people who have not swapped to an out-of-area supplier. That is a classic example of a market not working. Where a company has a huge base of inherited customers, many of whom would be better off switching, but who have stuck it out because they do not know how to switch, cannot be bothered to switch or whatever, that company can cream off millions. Ofgem says that there is a problem, but does not seem to be changing much. We need to give a kick-with a hobnailed boot, I suppose-up the backside of Ofgem, so that it really gets serious with the companies.

The House would not expect me to reserve all my criticisms for Ofgem and the Minister would be disappointed if I did not direct some at the Government, so I will balance things up. Ofgem and the Government are like Tweedledum and Tweedledee, because they both say exactly the same thing: "If you don't behave, we'll get tough." I have noticed that when I threaten my children with discipline but then fail to deliver it, they continue to misbehave. If the Minister thinks of himself as a slightly grumpy parent, I hope that he will realise that when he threatens discipline but does not deliver it, the children will go on misbehaving. My children have learnt-such behaviour is called learnt behaviour-and I am afraid that the energy companies have also continued to behave as they do. They have been told that they are in the last chance saloon, but they have been ordering extra rounds over and over again.

Somebody has to draw a line. Somebody-I do not much care whether it is the Government, Ofgem or both-has to tell the energy companies. The fuel poor and our constituents more broadly are fed up with people threatening to get tough. That has gone on long enough. The fuel companies have been given enough rope to hang themselves and that is what they have done. Now someone has to pull it a bit tighter. Of course they have a right to trade and make a profit. Indeed, we need them to make a profit to invest. I understand all those things. However, the energy companies are not making a profit through economic efficiency in a dynamic market; they are exploiting a quasi-monopoly, and the most vulnerable people in our society are losing out as a result. That has gone on for too long; it has to stop.